Theirs is, to say the least, a complex relationship. “But each time they made love, he felt a queer evanescence, as if her body were slipping from his grasp.”
Bernard’s love for Miranda goes unrequited, yet Roman envies him at the end. Why do you think Miranda’s presence is so powerful on these students?
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I think part of the draw for both of them (initially) is the mystery of her attitude -- for one, her ability to seem so aloof. It causes people to want to force reactions from her (as Roman did at the beginning). Perhaps that's one of the reasons Roman envied Bernard -- Roman had broken through the mystery and seen her as a regular person. Of course, that may be wrong of Roman -- Bernard probably always saw her as a real person, and as regular as a great poet could be to him. But maybe not -- unrequited love has a way of making the beloved mysterious to the lover.
ReplyDeletePerhaps Roman also envied the fact that Bernard never had a falling out with Miranda. In any other character, I'd say this was definitely the case, but Roman is just strange enough that I'm not convinced he could have thought like that.
Disclaimer: It's been a very long time since I've discussed (or even read) any fiction, so I'm very rusty. And my memory for text isn't what it used to be. So if what I'm saying is refuted by the text, please let me know. I could also have the opposite problem -- I could be saying things that are too obvious because I can't remember whether they were clear in the text!
Theirs is, to say the least, a complex relationship. “But each time they made love, he felt a queer evanescence, as if her body were slipping from his grasp.”
ReplyDeleteThat's a very interesting quote. Was he feeling something in her, or something in himself? I tend to think it was in him. She loved him, and he may have been incapable of love.
Good question. I think Miranda was a triple threat for Roman: a tremendous poetry mentor and inspiration; the mother figure he didn't have; and an attractive and mature woman to boot. On the last point, I think that might have been the least important of her qualities -- Roman kind of glossed over the sex itself -- but her sophistication is contrasted repeatedly against the "acolytes" Roman despised.
ReplyDeleteI think the idea of the elusive mother is what made Roman feel like she was always on the verge of being lost to him, even when, as their relationship progressed, she didn't indicate she planned to shut him out.
Ben, I think you make a good point that Roman might have been incapable of love. Or at least his fear of losing her kept him from fully experiencing the affair.
For Bernard, I think he set out a truly monastic existence for himself, and in the ways he tried to mirror his poetic quest to his Catholicism, Miranda becomes like a Virgin Mary figure to him. Does that sound like a wacky parallel to anyone?
Great point about the mother figure, cl. Roman needed Miranda like a kid needs a parent and when he outgrows the parent and can stand on his own, he can go his own way. But before he gets to that point there's a terrible neediness and dependency.
ReplyDeleteI think when it came to relationships Roman was simply a taker, not a giver. He never did anything notable for Miranda (and yet she loved him anyway). He took for granted, like the businessman he used to be and the self-centered teenage boy he still was at heart, that their relationship would primarily be about him and his needs. I'm guessing that not once during all those nights that Miranda spent helping him with his poetry and favoring him with her lovely body did he ever think, "Hey, enough about me! I want to do something awesome for her." And she loved him anyway. Just like Bernard loved Miranda — in a way that was about actual acceptance and affection and not about ego and neediness. Roman accused Bernard of sponging off him financially, but really it was Roman who was doing all the sponging, not financially but emotionally — in his affairs, in his friendships and in his marriage.
I agree that Roman behaved pretty badly. But I found Miranda's motives to be suspect. Why would professors make themselves unavailable in the classroom but available on the dance floor? Why did he need (choose?) to show up drunk on her doorstep for help with his work that she was supposed to offer in an appropriate setting? I think she was in it for the sex at first, then fell for him, and he for her.
ReplyDeleteIf it was more take-take-take, perhaps Roman's later academic relationship with Veronica helped him see what it was like to dedicate so much to grooming a student without much appreciation in response.
Miranda wasn't a blameless angel, to be sure. But I don't think she was in it for the sex. She could have had sex with any young, good-looking guy she wanted — and she wouldn't have had to help them with their poetry! But she chose Roman, presumably, because he deeply appealed to her in a more than physical way. And she was unselfish in that love. She didn't expect him to come see her. She didn't place demands on him. She gave and he took. Sure, she got sex, but she could have easily gotten that elsewhere.
ReplyDeleteI don't think he fell for her, really. He didn't love her. I think he saw her as a challenge, as an enigma to be conquered. He wanted her approval as a poet because her approval was valuable and validating. He felt actual hostility toward her, not love, before he had sex with her. And after that he stuck around until she was no longer useful to him.
I think she danced with Bernard because maybe she sensed that he appreciated her in a way that the other students didn't. He didn't seem to want anything from her, not approval, not validation. He was easy to interact with.
And I don't mean to imply that Roman was deliberately awful to her. I think it was just his personality. He just wasn't conscious of how selfishly he behaved (with anyone), and her own behavior (not expecting anything out of him) probably enabled him to think that his behavior was OK, that it was part of the unspoken arrangement that she gave, he took, and that their mentor-with-benefits relationship had a built-in expiration date that they both understood.
ReplyDeleteGreat discussion! I agree with everyone. (hehe)
ReplyDeleteI needed to know more about Miranda's thought process and motivations. I didn't really get why she'd fall in love with Roman. Like kc, I saw him as a taker. All he cared about was his poetry, his future. He didn't even really care about the sex that much! He certainly didn't care about Miranda beyond her capacity to help him as a writer or boost his ego. So what was the attraction for Miranda? Was it his talent as a writer? She wasn't obligated to help him. She had office hours and he never came. She would have been justified in slamming the door in his face when he showed up at her house.
I felt like Roman envied Bernard at the end because at least Bernard had felt a powerful emotional connection to someone, even if it was unrequited. I don't think Roman was ever in love, with Miranda or Lucy or anyone. And he probably thought his poetry was somewhat lackluster because of it, while Bernard's shone.
Someone please tell me I'm wrong about this, because it's an element of the book that I didn't like: It irritated me when he showed up drunk on her doorstep and she let him in. It reminded me of so many movie plots, and I could see it coming a mile away -- the protagonist who is a jerk pesters a woman until she sleeps with him. Does that often happen in real life? It seems like that's the only way people get together in movies anymore.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Erin - this is a great discussion! Interesting how many of us question whether Roman was ever in love with anybody - whether Miranda, Lucy or even Phebe (who makes a strange appearance toward the end. Did that catch anyone else off guard?).
ReplyDeletecl and Ben, I'm glad both of you brought up the drunk-on-the-doorstep routine. That didn't click with me either. Maybe it was, as kc suggests, a misplaced motherly instinct since Roman seems to need a certain amount of hand-holding.