Honestly, she sometimes seemed a little shallow to me. I felt sympathetic toward her just because of the way her birth excluded her from society (before Delia "rescues" her), but she squandered that by being unnecessarily rude to Charlotte and a little too "flighty," as even the book commented.
I thought this paragraph about Tina especially telling: "She had been given, at fourteen, the current version of her origin, and had accepted it as carelessly as a happy child accepts some remote and inconceivable fact which does not alter the familiar order of things. And she accepted her adoption in the same spirit."
Oh, that's a fantastic paragraph, Shanxi. It really shows not just a certain happy-go-luckiness, but also a spirit of ingratitude. There's a disturbing sense of entitlement in the way she seems to think her "specialness" lifts her above any circumstance. She thinks that every good thing that happens to her (like being adopted by Delia, her "real" mother in spirit) is merely testament to her own innate worthiness.
She did seem shallow and rather mean-spirited, and it was hard to watch how she treated Charlotte, but it would have been a very different story if Tina were a really congenial, kind-hearted, sympathetic soul; if she were those things, then the secret of her parentage probably could have been confided to her with a minimum of fuss, and she and Charlotte could have had a more normal mother-daughter relationship, at least within the confines of the home. That's what I thought when I kept asking myself why Wharton gave Tina the personality she did. She had to be like that for the story to work, right? For the tension to have been so dramatically taut between Delia and Charlotte. Or was something else going on?
So, what do you make of the last scene, where Delia asks Tina to give the last kiss to Charlotte? Is that merely the generosity of the victor? Or some kind of final triumph for empathy and love? Is it meant as a first real step in easing Charlotte's pain? Was it a one-time gesture, or did you have the sense that Delia had maybe committed herself to softening the relationship between Tina and Charlotte so that one day the truth could be told?
I feel I gave Tina short shrift in that last comment. I didn't mean to mention only her negative qualities. She is, of course, vivacious and charming and headstrong and, to her credit, is no slave to convention. She's kind of a Delia for the new generation. And she's also very young and drunk on herself and life's possibilities, which might account for some of the callousness she displays toward Charlotte, who in her mind is little more than a cranky, spinster relative who's not very fun to be around. She really has no notion at all WHY Charlotte might be the way she is! Perhaps it's only natural that, at her age, she takes her cues on how to value Charlotte from how she sees society valuing such women. It's not excusable, really, but it's understandable. And one might expect her empathy to develop with experience. Maybe one day she'll look at Charlotte and instead of seeing someone who's ill-humored and sour, she'll have the maturity to ask herself why Charlotte is the way she is.
Great comments! I had the same impressions of Tina: that she seemed kind of spoiled and shallow and not very kind. I suppose that could be a result of Delia fawning over her for most of her childhood. And as you say, immaturity may play a role. As she leaves her heady teenage years behind and settles into the probable tedium of her married life, she may begin to understand some of the social and domestic dynamics that were at play in Charlotte's life and Delia's.
I'm kind of compulsively thinking about Tina now. Hehe (Sorry in advance if I'm being tedious)
Do you think she was intended as a sort of Delia-Charlotte hybrid? Delia's panache combined with Charlotte's recklessness?
And — this just occurred to me — do you think Charlotte finally withdrew from the field of battle concerning the wedding night talk because Charlotte, being an "old maid," was not supposed to have any knowledge of sexual matters? Do you think some part of her didn't want Tina to see her as a "fallen woman"? Or was she beyond caring about such stuff?
"And she's also very young and drunk on herself and life's possibilities, which might account for some of the callousness she displays toward Charlotte." Ha, yes, kc. I didn't develop strong feelings either way for Tina. She was too young for it to matter. She probably didn't understand the values Charlotte wanted to impart upon her because she didn't understand that double standard that fatherless children already had a bit of the unfair taint of damaged goods. She was too young to comprehend her situation, as the passage Shanxi shared shows.
She was a little frivolous. So was the early Delia and her hat that had to be better than everybody else's. It wouldn't have been as great of a story if Delia and Charlotte were battling over the future of a properly appreciative and cognizant young woman. Instead it seems much more realistic to me that a young girl fails to appreciate what the family is doing on her behalf.
I figured maybe it was a combination of things that kept Charlotte from having the wedding night talk with Tina. Maybe she was beyond caring about being seen as a "fallen woman" but knew she was seen a certain way by Tina and probably couldn't change that overnight. And maybe she realized, too, that Tina would most likely prefer Delia and if Charlotte insisted on going herself, it would be for selfish reasons. Or maybe she knew that although she had sexual experience, she wouldn't be able to give any advice on being a wife.
cl, I like your take on Tina. One doesn't want to put too much stock in such an unfinished piece of work as she is.
Erin, good theories on Charlotte's response to the wedding night talk. I also thought maybe Charlotte clung to her secret somewhat — maybe out of fear that once she revealed it she might have to deal with Tina's disappointment at the truth, which would be completely heartbreaking. It's one thing for Tina to treat her indifferently when she was under the impression that Charlotte was just an old-maid relative, but quite another when she's in possession of the truth. Maybe Charlotte feared that — that Tina wouldn't reciprocate love but would only convey disappointment.
Honestly, she sometimes seemed a little shallow to me. I felt sympathetic toward her just because of the way her birth excluded her from society (before Delia "rescues" her), but she squandered that by being unnecessarily rude to Charlotte and a little too "flighty," as even the book commented.
ReplyDeleteI thought this paragraph about Tina especially telling: "She had been given, at fourteen, the current version of her origin, and had accepted it as carelessly as a happy child accepts some remote and inconceivable fact which does not alter the familiar order of things. And she accepted her adoption in the same spirit."
Oh, that's a fantastic paragraph, Shanxi. It really shows not just a certain happy-go-luckiness, but also a spirit of ingratitude. There's a disturbing sense of entitlement in the way she seems to think her "specialness" lifts her above any circumstance. She thinks that every good thing that happens to her (like being adopted by Delia, her "real" mother in spirit) is merely testament to her own innate worthiness.
ReplyDeleteShe did seem shallow and rather mean-spirited, and it was hard to watch how she treated Charlotte, but it would have been a very different story if Tina were a really congenial, kind-hearted, sympathetic soul; if she were those things, then the secret of her parentage probably could have been confided to her with a minimum of fuss, and she and Charlotte could have had a more normal mother-daughter relationship, at least within the confines of the home. That's what I thought when I kept asking myself why Wharton gave Tina the personality she did. She had to be like that for the story to work, right? For the tension to have been so dramatically taut between Delia and Charlotte. Or was something else going on?
So, what do you make of the last scene, where Delia asks Tina to give the last kiss to Charlotte? Is that merely the generosity of the victor? Or some kind of final triumph for empathy and love? Is it meant as a first real step in easing Charlotte's pain? Was it a one-time gesture, or did you have the sense that Delia had maybe committed herself to softening the relationship between Tina and Charlotte so that one day the truth could be told?
I feel I gave Tina short shrift in that last comment. I didn't mean to mention only her negative qualities. She is, of course, vivacious and charming and headstrong and, to her credit, is no slave to convention. She's kind of a Delia for the new generation. And she's also very young and drunk on herself and life's possibilities, which might account for some of the callousness she displays toward Charlotte, who in her mind is little more than a cranky, spinster relative who's not very fun to be around. She really has no notion at all WHY Charlotte might be the way she is! Perhaps it's only natural that, at her age, she takes her cues on how to value Charlotte from how she sees society valuing such women. It's not excusable, really, but it's understandable. And one might expect her empathy to develop with experience. Maybe one day she'll look at Charlotte and instead of seeing someone who's ill-humored and sour, she'll have the maturity to ask herself why Charlotte is the way she is.
ReplyDeleteGreat comments! I had the same impressions of Tina: that she seemed kind of spoiled and shallow and not very kind. I suppose that could be a result of Delia fawning over her for most of her childhood. And as you say, immaturity may play a role. As she leaves her heady teenage years behind and settles into the probable tedium of her married life, she may begin to understand some of the social and domestic dynamics that were at play in Charlotte's life and Delia's.
ReplyDeleteI'm kind of compulsively thinking about Tina now. Hehe (Sorry in advance if I'm being tedious)
ReplyDeleteDo you think she was intended as a sort of Delia-Charlotte hybrid? Delia's panache combined with Charlotte's recklessness?
And — this just occurred to me — do you think Charlotte finally withdrew from the field of battle concerning the wedding night talk because Charlotte, being an "old maid," was not supposed to have any knowledge of sexual matters? Do you think some part of her didn't want Tina to see her as a "fallen woman"? Or was she beyond caring about such stuff?
"And she's also very young and drunk on herself and life's possibilities, which might account for some of the callousness she displays toward Charlotte." Ha, yes, kc. I didn't develop strong feelings either way for Tina. She was too young for it to matter. She probably didn't understand the values Charlotte wanted to impart upon her because she didn't understand that double standard that fatherless children already had a bit of the unfair taint of damaged goods. She was too young to comprehend her situation, as the passage Shanxi shared shows.
ReplyDeleteShe was a little frivolous. So was the early Delia and her hat that had to be better than everybody else's. It wouldn't have been as great of a story if Delia and Charlotte were battling over the future of a properly appreciative and cognizant young woman. Instead it seems much more realistic to me that a young girl fails to appreciate what the family is doing on her behalf.
I figured maybe it was a combination of things that kept Charlotte from having the wedding night talk with Tina. Maybe she was beyond caring about being seen as a "fallen woman" but knew she was seen a certain way by Tina and probably couldn't change that overnight. And maybe she realized, too, that Tina would most likely prefer Delia and if Charlotte insisted on going herself, it would be for selfish reasons. Or maybe she knew that although she had sexual experience, she wouldn't be able to give any advice on being a wife.
ReplyDeletecl, I like your take on Tina. One doesn't want to put too much stock in such an unfinished piece of work as she is.
ReplyDeleteErin, good theories on Charlotte's response to the wedding night talk. I also thought maybe Charlotte clung to her secret somewhat — maybe out of fear that once she revealed it she might have to deal with Tina's disappointment at the truth, which would be completely heartbreaking. It's one thing for Tina to treat her indifferently when she was under the impression that Charlotte was just an old-maid relative, but quite another when she's in possession of the truth. Maybe Charlotte feared that — that Tina wouldn't reciprocate love but would only convey disappointment.
Yes! I was thinking that, too, but couldn't articulate it that well.
ReplyDelete